Pre-Industrial Transportation?

[ellenkushner]

Assured one of my anxious Hollins students that there are web pages that briefly & clearly tell historical/fantasy writers how long it takes to get places on horseback or by carriage (and how it all works).

Am I right?

Comments

[amieroserotruck.livejournal.com]

Ooo, such a creature exists? *settling in with popcorn to watch this entry in case the answer surfaces*

[brewsternorth.livejournal.com]

Hrrr, if there isn't there bally well should be. Maybe I should hang out a batsignal for such a site among my Age of Sail fandom friends? (Such details come into consideration when you're trying to work out the logistics of Hornblower fanfiction, for instance.)

[ellen-kushner.livejournal.com]

That would be most excellent! Or maybe what's already been Commented will do us?

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

There's not much, in fact, not even on the University of Georgetown's Labyrinth site, which is usually wonderful. There are some useful snippets in the Dartford Town Archive -- this one, for instance: http://www.dartfordarchive.org.uk/early_modern/transport_road.shtml
There are some good books, though; notably Antoni Maczak, Travel in Early Modern Europe and Norbert Ohler, The Medieval Traveller.

[coffeeem.livejournal.com]

A quick Google ("travel by horse carriage speed") produced this, and this for bursts of speed rather than sustained mileage.

So, yes, you were correct. I expect only slightly more determined Googling could produce whatever refinement of the answer one might need!

[desperance.livejournal.com]

http://historicalnovelists.tripod.com/equineda.htm

[dreamflower]

The only one I know of is specific to Middle-earth:
http://www.theoriginalseries.com/traveltimes.htm

[handworn.livejournal.com]

That's the kind of detail found in Eliza Picard's works.

I keep thinking I ought to create an historical fiction resource website, since I enjoy it so much, but seriously, there's so much that could be put on one that it's daunting. Especially given my crowded stovetop of projects.

[heartofoshun.livejournal.com]

I have seen some charts created for writing Tolkien fanfiction which discuss miles per day by horseback and under what conditions. Here is one, which also contains a link to a paperback published by the same writer on common mistakes writers make relating to horses and travel by horse: http://www.theoriginalseries.com/traveltimes.htm

[jay-of-lasgalen.livejournal.com]

I was going to mention this as well, but two people have already beaten me to it!

[lauriemann.livejournal.com]

There will be a panel on this very topic at Worldcon this year: "Traveling Before the Motored Horse" with fannish horsewomen Ellan Asher, Lynda E. Rucker, Melinda M. Snodgras.

[ellen-kushner.livejournal.com]

Maybe this is also a good place to point folks to JUDITH TARR'S Horsecamp?

http://capriole.smoe.org/camp.html

I hear it's brilliant, and just what a writer needs.

[birdhousefrog.livejournal.com]

She's done a lot of research and also has first-hand knowledge, in depth, not to mention the PhD thing. Over on Book View Cafe, she now has an ebook of "Horses for Writers."

Horsecamp for Writers covers anything you want it to, yes.

Oz

[julieandrews.livejournal.com]

When in doubt, use pegasi.

Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads!

[julieandrews.livejournal.com]

Speaking of horses though, I was watching the new reality show Expedition: Impossible and the teams had to travel on horseback. And it became VERY clear to me why it's so obvious when you're a horseriding newbie. Oh, the bouncing, the bouncing!

[christopher cevasco (from livejournal.com)]

Alas, Ellen, you might have been thinking of the alternate historical timeline in which the divergence point was the creation of such a useful website in April 2009. Would that we all lived in that timeline... :)

[strange-selkie.livejournal.com]

I asked equestrienne friends when I found different answers on different sites, and the answer I got from them = fresh horse + skilled rider = 12-15mph on horseback. Coaches, curricles, gigs and drays, I got nothin'.

[raaven (from livejournal.com)]

Modern-day carriages, on (presumably) modern-day roads are 5-8mph:

http://www.welcome-to-lancaster-county.com/amish-buggy.html

[jackdaniel.livejournal.com]

I'v actually been looking for one of those site recently.

[xahra99.livejournal.com]

Very helpful, not to mention realistic. If it stops those horse=car analogies that occur in bad fantasy fiction, then I'm all for it.
Would anyone be interested/have a site host for a table or article regarding a similar walk on foot while carrying all equipment and camping out like most people in fantasy novels? I have an old route planner we did for a 1200 mile walk over 3 months which I could post somewhere.
Averaged about 21 miles per day, over all sorts of terrain-mountains, roads, tracks, by rivers etc etc with 3 rest days.

[mouseworks.livejournal.com]

People who were traveling fast by horse set up relays -- the record from London to Edinburgh when Queen Elizabeth died wasn't broken until the 19th Century, done by Sir Robert Carey in sixty hours. Pony Express crossed the US from St. Louis to San Francisco in something like three days (record for bicycles is a bit over 5 days from what I could find in a quick Google). Horse endurance rides are up to 100 miles in a day, generally with riders on Arabians.

Judging on these stats, I'd say that translating from bicycle speeds to horse speeds would be a good approximation. A fit bicyclist can do 100 miles a day. Top flat speeds for horse and bicyclist are also probably comparable.

Car -- horse: bad analogy. Bicycle -- horse: good analogy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endurance_riding

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