When is a Mary Sue . . . ?

[ellenkushner]

"So when a book is about a girl who is the best at something and about the boys (and/or girls) that love her and how she defeats the bad guy, well, that's because she's the protagonist. It is good and right that she be at the center of the story."

My love for Holly Black / blackholly  ,  it knows no bounds.

Comments

[keyan-bowes.livejournal.com]

I am *so* glad you said this. I suspect the only people troubled by "Mary Sues" are other authors. As a reader, I *want* the protagonist to be special, otherwise why am I wasting my time spending so many hours with her? She's got to be more special than a real person, because she cannot be special in the ways a real person is.

- Keyan

[ellen-kushner.livejournal.com]

I cannot take credit: it's a quote from Holly's post, which is linked under her name.

But, yeah.

[vgqn.livejournal.com]

Speaking as a reader, not an author, I perceive a difference between a protagonist who is special, is the best at something, etc. and the unrealistic, wish-fulfillment perfection of a Mary Sue.

[vgqn.livejournal.com]

Ah, never mind. Now that I've gone off and read the original thread, I see it's about inappropriate over-use of the term.

[vschanoes.livejournal.com]

That may well be, but if she's the best at everything, especially due not to work and/or study but due to some innate specialness, and the most beautiful, and everybody loves her and/or wants to sleep with her, and she defeats the evil due to her special wonderfulness, then she's a boring protagonist and I have no intention of giving her more than 15 minutes of my time.

And before anybody asks, yes, I have precisely the same problems with Harry Potter, who is the single least interesting character in that entire series.

[theniwokesoftly.livejournal.com]

Haha yes. I love the Harry Potter series, but my favorite characters are not the main trio (NEVILLE FTW). Of course the protagonist should be special, but there are ways to this. All the twihards say that Bella isn't a Mary Sue because she's klutzy. Nope, she's still a Mary Sue, mostly because she's one-dimensional- everyone loves Bella even when she treats them like shit just because she's so special? Ugh.

[susanjett.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the link to the fantastic post (& follow-up comments.) Worth the click-over, folks, there's some fascinating, respectful debate going on over there!

[ellen-kushner.livejournal.com]

Hi, Susan! Glad you liked it as much as I do.