ellenkushner: (Bordertown)
[personal profile] ellenkushner
After 3 days of intense & furious editing of everyone else's Bordertown stories, I am now working on my own. My character is a grad student in cultural anthropology, who had the bright idea of going to B'town to do field work among the elves (or Truebloods, as they call themselves).  Ideally he'd go right into the Realm, but of course no human can pass the Border into there.  It is known that elves living in B'town themselves cannot speak of certain details about their home (in [livejournal.com profile] coffeeem  's wonderful new story, this is referred to as "the Silencing") - but my guy is sure a Trained Anthropologist can ask the questions right and get real answers.

He is, unfortunately, wrong.....

But never mind that for now.  My question:  What is his Research Topic for his thesis?  (I thought of "Kinship Systems amongst the Elves" - but then I'd have to write about Kinship systems, which was my least favorite class for the 2 yrs I did anthro as an undergrad).  And how long would be reasonable for him to take doing fieldwork before he was expected to write it?

Also:  this story takes place ca. 1998.  Was there a fashionable area of research then?  He's basically a fantasy geek who wants an excuse to go meet elves - but needs to impress his thesis advisor (so "kinship systems" would be hilariously apt, as it's dry as dust - but then I'd have to write about it - see above.)

Date: 2010-06-09 11:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stevendj.livejournal.com
No idea what a typical anthropology thesis topic is like. How about inheritance customs?

Date: 2010-06-09 11:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eila.livejournal.com
I'd like to share ideas, but since I'm writing a story about an anthropologist who is an elf, I can't really share her theses with you. ^_^

(Came here via [livejournal.com profile] damasthia)

Date: 2010-06-09 11:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] barondave.livejournal.com
Coming of Age in Bordertown

An Examination of The Silencing And It's Effect On Diffusion vs. Cultural Invention Disparities

Symbolism in Bordertown's Institutions

Date: 2010-06-09 11:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] khraesch.livejournal.com
Fortunately, you can rest easy. You don't have to write work *on* the topic. You merely have to write work *about* the topic.

Obviously, you know enough about the topic. But a layman reader is more interested about how the characters deal with the subject matter than the matter itself. :-)

Does that make sense? I hope so!

Date: 2010-06-09 11:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eila.livejournal.com
Actually, just think of your own favorite topics to read/write in Anthropology and apply them to working in the field. A decent ethnography can go a long way. The character I'm working with is primarily focused on linguistics and mythology.

If you're into bio-anth, you could go along the bent of their systems of healing?

Date: 2010-06-09 11:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sinboy.livejournal.com
"War and Violent Conflict Among the Elves". Sort of the same type of study that's done on how war works on native tribes in Africa, Pacific Islanders and South America.

Or "Myths of the Elven People". Because everyone knows gods are mythical, right? (heh)

Date: 2010-06-09 11:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellen-kushner.livejournal.com
yes & no. I do need to come up with some believable-sounding questions for him to ask the Bordertown elves (which they will invariably find offensive, intrusive & ill-bred).

Am I right in thinking that he needs to have a Thesis Topic, or is it enough for him to be doing fieldwork & hoping for something he'll be able to write up?

Date: 2010-06-09 11:53 pm (UTC)
ext_7618: (Default)
From: [identity profile] tournevis.livejournal.com
I can support the first suggestion, though I'd add a gendred aspect. Something like "Gendered ritual violence and war-making among the Truebloods (Elves)"

Date: 2010-06-09 11:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] movingfinger.livejournal.com
Then go at it from the other side. What would it be offensive, intrusive, and ill-bred to ask about? Sex? Money? Death? Marriage? etc. etc.

Personally, I'd write this with the guy having the wrong end of the stick about some push-button issue (say, incest!) and the elves deciding to take the piss out of him by feeding him a long, long line of sensationalist rubbish. (Think Margaret Mead.)

Date: 2010-06-09 11:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] heavenscalyx.livejournal.com
Symbolism in Bordertown's Institutions

I suspect that would be "Semiotics".

Date: 2010-06-09 11:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellen-kushner.livejournal.com
I'm already there! The comedy will be in his endlessly trying to make it work, and constantly getting jerked around by them one way and another. He's got just a few more weeks before he has to go home, and he still hasn't got (his data? his thesis?)....

Date: 2010-06-09 11:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] heavenscalyx.livejournal.com
I assume that semen transactions are Right Out.

Date: 2010-06-10 12:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellen-kushner.livejournal.com
Remember I gotta understand this well enough to fake this myself!

Date: 2010-06-10 12:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tylik.livejournal.com
Trade and Bargaining: Systems of Exchange Among the Elves.

(I want to say something kind of the equivalent of the "overseas business community of" but I'm blanking. But I like the cultural loadedness of dealmaking.)

Date: 2010-06-10 12:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellen-kushner.livejournal.com
Cute! But it has to fit with the Bordertown canon (see my link, above, and also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Borderland_Series
)

Date: 2010-06-10 12:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellen-kushner.livejournal.com
Hey - I wonder if I can just talk to Dr. Kerey (duhhh)?

Date: 2010-06-10 12:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellen-kushner.livejournal.com
Do you need to have declared your Thesis Topic before you head off to do your field work?

And do you need a grant while you're there?

Date: 2010-06-10 12:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] movingfinger.livejournal.com
There ya go. He's been working on this for years, his superannuated and academically out-of-fashion advisor just died of a surfeit of eels or something, the new department head has taken on this fellow, the advisor's last dilatory student, and told him his funding would not be renewed, and he's got until the end of the semester to produce the written thesis to support his alluringly, sexy, rubbish idea (perhaps he inherited it from the advisor---you know how it goes---and he's a gormless dupe in that direction also)(a la The White Goddess, so beautiful and so very wrong about so very many things).

So he has his dodgy, all-wrong thesis subject, and he's convinced that he can find data to support it by actually going to Bordertown and doing Field Research. He has only read about Bordertown before.

Snigger.

Pick a subject that will not be obviously immediately wrong to the readers and it's even better ("Oh my god! I never even suspected the elves would do that!")...

(Btw, speaking of field researchers, have you guys read Otoyomegatari?)

Date: 2010-06-10 12:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sinboy.livejournal.com
"Excuse me stewardess, I speak Jive academic"

Date: 2010-06-10 12:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] movingfinger.livejournal.com
Yes, you need to have your topic, or you're just sitting around with no idea how to focus or direct your work.

You need some kind of grant to support you, unless you're independently wealthy.

Date: 2010-06-10 12:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] heavenscalyx.livejournal.com
Emailing you!

Date: 2010-06-10 12:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shelly-rae.livejournal.com
Same Sex Relations and the Economies of Exchange in Bordertown: A Study of the Effects of Kinship, Sex and Power.

Queer Theory and economies were big research topics in the 90s-2000s and the use of kinship ties to manipulate power structures is always interesting. We also call it politics.
Anon

Date: 2010-06-10 01:23 am (UTC)
redbird: closeup of me drinking tea, in a friend's kitchen (Default)
From: [personal profile] redbird
If he's a gormless grad student who doesn't know much about elves or anthropology, the topic/title doesn't have to fit with the canon: you could play with them dealing with this clueless git who is asking them questions about why they have a council of elders when everyone knows that it's an absolute monarchy chosen by lottery (or the other way around).

Don't make it kinship systems!

Date: 2010-06-10 01:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kestrelsparhawk.livejournal.com
Hi ya. Lurker butting in -- but my PhD research skill was ethnography, which means several (not all that recent anthro classes.

Kinship systems weren't much talked about when I was in, so I figure you have two choices: go with something that's recently big, or make up your own.

It depends if your guy's an asshat or pretty good at his own culture. My own fondness is for marxian anthro, which focuses on families --started with Engels. In that case, it'd be the economic: how do elves divide labor, for example, or how are they changing as a result of... contact with Bordertown? The increase/decrease of child labor? whatever; I haven't seen the world building.

Oh, and just saw the fieldwork comment. Fieldwork would actually be much safer; anthropologists go into the field, do the work, and then come up with something they noticed. Which does NOT say they go in neutral. (one of my anthro profs told us that one out of three candidates go into the field and never come back; anthro majors have the worst record of "finishing' of any field.)

Or communication, anthro's historical base: something bland, like naming differences and political control or something. (ie Do different classes/genders/races/ages of elves have different courtesy terms,or do they pay attention to inflection etc. I'm a cultural studies person myself, so I'd be interested in, say, how art and cultural artifacts position elves in the world. (And yes, "position" is a verb for cultural studies folks, alas.)

I'd say choose the area of how humans live which interests you most and is plausible for your character, and then go from there concerning the questions. Then you'll give him questions the rest of us would perhaps see as reasonable and be surprised at the culture clash, and bingo! audience culture clash.

As to thesis -- is this master's or PhD? Because usually humanities degrees involve dissertation, and only master's students have theses. And those who have terminal degrees of PhDs wouldn't be impressed much at a master's thesis, though that fact might be useful to you.

Sorry this is so extensive -- I trod the mysterious culture of academia too many years.

Date: 2010-06-10 01:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wordsofastory.livejournal.com
Kinships systems are no longer much of a topic, so at least you don't have to write about that!

Some ideas:
Language learning/Socialization was big recently (and I think continues to be so). Every culture has its own habits on how to teach children to speak (i.e., do you use baby-talk or not? Do you deliberately try to teach them words, or just let them pick it up by listening?), and different ideas of what is a "normal" rate of learning.
Sexuality is big.
There's a lot of people in my department are studying "media production" (though that may be a result of my department, rather than a discipline-wide trend, I'm not sure), which seems to mean studying art, documentaries, films, news, and other areas like that, people's relationship to them, how they're created and circulated, etc.
Medical anthropology is big. Different cultures have different ideas of what is a "disease" and what is "normal", how you should treat diseases, different expectations of what is and is not acceptable results, etc. This can also shade into studying effective ways to get medical knowledge out- for example, what is the best way to explain to different groups of people effective HIV prevention? This can also include specifically reproductive medicine- what do people think of birth control, abortion, fertility treatments, etc.
Nationalism processes- so, how do people come to think of themselves as a "nation"? Or an "ethnicity"? How does this change over time? This is especially popular in post-colonial situations.
Memory- how do people talk about important historical events? How "accurate" is it? What gets forgotten, and what gets remembered? In what ways is it remembered (official holidays, family stories, textbooks, novels, etc)?
Diasporas/migration - how do people who have left home talk about their old home vs their new home? Which place do they consider themselves part of? How do they differ from those who didn't leave (for instance, sometimes the people who leave are much more patriotic/conservative than people who stay, because they have an idealized version of "how it used to be")? How do they change to fit in?

Those are some of the big ones right now. Let me know if any of these sound interesting, and I can tell you more about them!

Date: 2010-06-10 02:21 am (UTC)
ext_7618: (Default)
From: [identity profile] tournevis.livejournal.com
I think you misunderstand. Such a title would refer, for example, to sports as proxy-violence for males during youth, or or even dance between elder femelles vying for power and the comparison of them, or some such. No sex nor rape, nor actual war. Or what is it you thought I was saying?
Edited Date: 2010-06-10 02:27 am (UTC)

Date: 2010-06-10 02:24 am (UTC)
ext_7618: (OK)
From: [identity profile] tournevis.livejournal.com
This is perfect! It reads lie so many thesis proposals I read year. This would pas muster.

Date: 2010-06-10 02:26 am (UTC)
ext_7618: (Geek)
From: [identity profile] tournevis.livejournal.com
Blame my iPad for the mispellings.

Date: 2010-06-10 03:18 am (UTC)
aliseadae: (windswept hair)
From: [personal profile] aliseadae
The political and social structures of Bordertown, perhaps? Sort of along the lines of social complexity.

Date: 2010-06-10 08:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shotboxer.livejournal.com
Ditto what tournevis said. Although, if you really wanted to use kinship system and the Silencing, you could go for something like 'the courtship rituals of endogamous and exogamous elves and the maintenance of elvish identity' or something - how to you ask about sex, love, courtship etc AND stuff about elvish culture they're not allowed to talk about at the same time? Your guy would basically be trying to figure out if elves who were dating/married to other elves had a different/more intimate/less 'traditional' relationship with their partners than did elves dating/married to humans, which would involve LOTS of akward, prying questions.

Material Culture is the thing!

Date: 2010-06-10 10:14 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I was an anthro student in the late 1990s, and there were several distinct strands. One was a complete obsession with postmodernism, particularly with Derrida and the like. Difficult and really peering at the naval, but perfect if you don't like fieldwork all that much.
Also growing was war and refugee studies, so movements of displaced peoples (I think it was a bit early for tourism and eco-stuff), which would work with doing fieldwork at the border (not that I know a thing about this place), and also some attempts to pass through the border without permission for comparison purposes.
But the most fun was material culture studies, which draws conclusions about a society via their material artifacts. Read Howard 'Morphology' Morphy on the subject. Nicely familiar with the postmodern stuff, not enslaved to it, also writes well. The good thing about material culture is that you have an opportunity to draw all kinds of far-fetched and highly theoretical explanations about the use of an object, or just be very practical, and the amount of fieldwork could be short because you would want to collect a lot of objects to examine later (or photographs, which was the ethical thing to do).
Traditionally you would want to be 18 months to 2 years in the field, but the trend was certainly starting back then for very short, focused bursts of fieldwork, and also 'fieldwork at home', which was, of course, a lot cheaper.

Tina (FOAF)

Date: 2010-06-10 11:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] prosewitch.livejournal.com
I think you're the first person on the thread to mention participant observation, brava!

I'm a Ph.D. candidate in folklore, which shares some territory with anthropology, so yes, I was going to say that this student would probably be using participant observation as one of his methods (also cutely described as "deep hanging out," or spending a lot of time with people, observing them and doing what they do, with an emphasis on analyzing their customs and beliefs and the underlying "why" of everything). It is common for people doing fieldwork--the process of gathering data in "the field," which can be a research location near or far from home--to use tape recorders or other recording devices when doing interviews or observing events, and then later transcribe those recordings (transcription is its own rite of passage, ugh!). Fieldworkers also generally keep field notes or a field journal, usually some kind of notebook in which they jot down names, native terms, the order in which events occur, and anything else they might need to clarify for the interviews or other information they're recording in a more "official" manner.

I also agree on the title, with Clever Phrase: Explanation in Longer Academese as the structure.

In addition to experiential and reflexive approaches, one research focus to incorporate might be native strategies, the idea that people use cultural traditions as strategies to navigate everyday life and specific events. So your student might discuss creative strategies for negotiating differential identities in Bordertown, meaning by that the residents (presumably elves) would have native terminology, stereotypes, and other ways of assessing insider vs. outsider (or local vs. global) identities when encountering people not from their ethnic group.

Which reminds me, another way of explaining what it is that cultural anthropologists and folklorists do is to try to understand the "insider" perspective and then analyze it using "outsider" terms. Ethnography--the process of writing about culture, usually informed by fieldwork--is essentially a special method for navigating distance and intimacy, playing between the two as a way of understanding other cultures (and our own).

Date: 2010-06-10 01:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] papersky.livejournal.com
I was going to say postcolonialism, which is actually an especially interesting topic in Bordertown, because who colonized whom, and what were the results? If you went in after doing postcolonial work with post-colonized humans and had expectations of elves as victims?

"The edge of the powerless: family, gender and labor among the elves of Bordertown".

Re: Material Culture is the thing!

Date: 2010-06-10 01:19 pm (UTC)
ewein2412: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ewein2412
i sent tina here to answer on my behalf. material culture is a *great* idea because you can Make It Up.

I think Indonesia, Thailand, Burma, those types of places, were hot for fieldwork in the 1990s.

Date: 2010-06-10 01:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shrewreader.livejournal.com
Everything in the '90s in social sciences was identity and 'the other.'

E.g. Gender identity in Borderland and The Other: an analysis of X, Y and Z.

Date: 2010-06-10 01:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elissa-carey.livejournal.com
The latter was something I was starting to wonder about; ARE there elf/human dating relationships in B-Town? And if so, what's the typical "balance of power" between them? (As in, is it obvious that elves have the upper hand, or is it humans? Or, does it merely depend on the sexes: women of B-Town, human or elf, always have the power in such relationships? -- for example. Add in same-sex relations and wow that could get very complicated.)

Sprinkle in bits about how that might tie into the nature of B-Town itself, and that could be quite fascinating both story-wise and fictional thesis-wise. (Well, to me it would be.)
From: [identity profile] shadowkat67.livejournal.com
I minored in cultural anthropology in 1988 and for my thesis, I convinced my college to give me a $2000 grant(called the literary award) to go to Wales for the entire summer, and collect Welsh folklore, oral narratives, specifically regarding the Mabinogi and fairy stories. They gave me the money and off I went, with kid-brother in tow, because my mother had the bright idea of letting him take photos (which of course he didn't, he had just graduated from high school and took off on his own, we did meet back up at a certain point). While there, I went to The Welsh Folklore Center in Cardiff, and was told about a young cultural anthropology graduate - male - who was in the hills of Wales collecting Giant stories.

At any rate - my suggestion to you is that you have the guy travel to bordertown to collect oral narratives or stories. He should be a linguist - that was my problem, I'm not, so I ran into hurdles.
Also, I had to switch from fairy stories to ghost stories - because I couldn't get that many fairy stories.

There are a lot of cultural anthropologists who become trained folklorists. I know of one in South Carolina who collects Gullah stories.

Date: 2010-06-10 05:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellen-kushner.livejournal.com
Thank you all so very, very much - this is *precisely* the info I needed!

Re: Material Culture is the thing!

Date: 2010-06-10 05:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellen-kushner.livejournal.com
Thank you both so much! I have about 3 days to write this story, so am stealing as fast as I can!

Date: 2010-06-11 11:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] swan-tower.livejournal.com
All of this, yes. (I've seen the more recent post about this story, so I know I'm late to the party -- unfortunately, I was in London when you floated this question -- but I wanted to chime in anyway.)

These days, I'd say an anthro thesis/dissertation would be structured less around a subject matter (e.g. kinship) and more around a theoretical project (e.g. postcolonialism). Borders are a fairly big concept, actually; I'd love to see a story that's about someone anthropologically exploring concepts of liminality, transgression, identity formation, etc, in the context of Bordertown.

Date: 2010-06-12 09:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellen-kushner.livejournal.com
Thankee! This guy went to B'town circa 1997 - and has been trapped there for the 13 years in our world that passed there in 13 days - so am looking for a Project that would have been hot back then.

Also, he's one of the first guys to do Field Work in B'town w/elves, so he thinks he's hot stuff & is about to blow the lid off modern anthro with this new "tribe" . . . .
From: (Anonymous)
http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/96legacy/releases.96/14310.html
suggests topics family-influenced mating taboos and weapon + self defense ["Elf Defense" sorry :D] styles
even fashion as related to mixes of family
-jay sheckley

Date: 2010-06-12 07:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blubelle.livejournal.com
Agency is really big right now. Definitions vary, but personal choice/action within a cultural group and/or how that affects the group. It can go in a number of directions, because of the variation in how the concept is understood, but could also tie into the Silencing- Do they try to talk around it? Manipulate it? How do individuals identify themselves with that restriction on verbal expression? Are they using alternative method of expressions?

Also typical cultural anthropology dissertation research time is a minimum of 10 months, from personal observation and peer chatter. It can go longer depending on the question, often developing relationships with local groups and individuals takes time before research can be adequately addressed.

I was an archaeology/biological anthropology grad student. I will think a bit more, see if anything else occurs to me, but I'm happy to talk further if you'd like.

Date: 2010-07-27 06:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellen-kushner.livejournal.com
Ha!! In desperation I totally stole your title for Anush's thesis . . . and so far none of my readers has questioned it (though an anthropologist did just say maybe << "creation of" or "construction" would be better than "maintenance:" anthropologists are much more interested in how identity is created than in how it is simply maintained>> - though in B'town this may be less of an issue . . . .) ANYHOW, story is due at the printer's next week (for ARC's) - and since you 3 were so very helpful, I was wondering if you might have time to read it as it now stands (or at least just the Anush sections - it's rather long, I'm afraid - well, 2 authors, lots of words...) and get back to me (say, by Tuesday?) with kindly suggestions for not getting egg on my face? If so, please send your e-mail address & off it goes, with my thanks!
e
(e-mail me directly at Kushner.Ellen at the usual gmaildotcom)

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