The Way Out of Copyedit Hell

[ellenkushner]

One of the nicest gifts I got this year was this, a cover letter to a set of copyedits from our publisher to all his authors from editor Jonathan Strahan:

 As is often the case, the copyedits are sometimes perceptive, sometimes
save the day, and occasionally miss the point or wreck the sense or
poetry of your prose.  In most cases the copyedits are minor, but in
some instances they are not. In either instance I wanted you to have
the chance to see, consider and accept or reject them. I would also
add that, while I value copyeditors a great deal when it comes to
catching grammatical issues and the occasional minor problem, I also
routinely overrule them, and so should you. This is a chance to ensure
the text is as you want it to appear, so you should make whatever
changes you require.

It is advice that every author should pin up over their desk, or secrete with lavender in their handkerchief drawer, or put behind glass next to a teensy hatchet with the words:  
When panicking over suggested copyedits, Break Glass!

It is very much the advice my college writing teacher of blessed memory, Joy (B.J.) Chute gave us:  "It's your name," she used to say, "that the work goes out under, not the editor's!"  But what did we know?  We just hoped there would be an editor to contend with some day!

And so, I offer it to you, and hope that you enjoy it all 'year round - and if not this year, then the next.

Comments

[isfdb.livejournal.com]

As a reader with a strong sense of what's "right", I appreciate copyeditors. And appreciate almost all the editors on ISFDB. But "overrule" is fine - I wouldn't have learned as much American, Canadian, Australian or New Zealand "English" if I hadn't learned to work WITH such people rather than be prescriptive.

[twistedsheets10.livejournal.com]

:D

I'm a copyeditor (for academic journals and books), and I can't imagine applying the kind of editing we do on fiction books. I would make the usual checks, but I'd be extremely reluctant to touch grammar corrections/structures, because I wouldn't want to mess with an author's sense of prose. But for most part, we go for 'less interference' with and being respectful of what and how the author wrote.

[sue-bursztynski.livejournal.com]

As a person with only a few books under my belt, only one of them a novel, I can't do the "overrule" thing. I can only suggest, politely, that this was done as it was for that reason and, perhaps negotiate a compromise. Or, at best, say, "I'd rather keep it as it is, if that's okay with you". Maybe one day when I'm as famous as you, Ellen, I, too, will do the overruling! :-)

My grammar is fine, so that's never going to be an issue.

[ellen-kushner.livejournal.com]

You're actually wrong, Sue, particularly when it comes to copyedits. Trust me, I did this with my first novel, too. A copyeditor is a hired gun who comes in to make sure everything is consistent & correct. They are our fabulous footsoldiers in the fight for perfection on the page. But they are not the General. That is the author. End of story.

I suspect it is women in particular who worry that they must be agreeable and not make a fuss or stand up for their own vision and decisions, lest they be considered Not Nice.

[sue-bursztynski.livejournal.com]

Courtesy doesn't hurt, whether you're male or female. When someone has a job to do, it helps if you work with them.

If I'm passionate about something, I'll say so. Mostly, publishers are fine with that. Nobody has been horrible to me so far, editing-wise. I know they want this to be the best book it can,so if I can find a way to compromise and make it better, I do. If not - I say politely, "This is why I did it this way, this is why what you suggest won't work" and they say, "Fair enough." They tried several times to get me to remove three moons from my novel and it was important enough that I insisted on keeping it.

The only time I got truly upset was when the damned PROOFREADER tried to edit it! Turns out the editorial staff agreed with me she was out of line, but sent it along anyway, just in case I saw something they didn't.

[ellen-kushner.livejournal.com]

I think we're talking at cross-purposes here: My post was only about *copyedits*, which have only to do with Style - i.e., punctuation & the occasional word choice. Actual story editing, about substantive text, is something else - and is done by one's actual editor, with whom, one hopes and presumes, you have a cordial, congenial, convivial and collegial relations. The copyeditor is a hired gun, much like the proofreader (but is the step before a work goes to print for the proofreader to read over) whom one never meets or speaks to - one is simply presented with one's ms., with copyeditor's suggested changes, to approve or dissaprove piece by piece.

Courtesy, of course, is always important.

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

Amen.

(If I could tag my comments, I'd just my "don't touch my punctuation" tag for this one.)

[ellen-kushner.livejournal.com]

STET!

[swan-tower.livejournal.com]

. . . and ironically, I look back at my comment here and find my fingers typed "just" when I meant "use."

<headdesk>

[ellen-kushner.livejournal.com]

I guess you are your own best copyeditor, then!

[penmage.livejournal.com]

When we send out copyedits, we always tell our authors that they should feel free to stet anything that doesn't feel right to them. The copyeditor is doing the best job they can, but they don't always have a sense of the writer's style, so it's the writer's prerogative to stet what needs to be stetted!

[ellen-kushner.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. And I've had friends who've copyedited - used to be something you did in your 20s while looking for other work - I remember some of them being quite concerned that they'd failed by not marking up enough stuff, and trying to show their mettle by going back in & adding more suggestions - that probably drove the author insane!

But as an author, I"ll tell you, my dear(s): You can't tell us often enough that it's OK to stick to our guns! We do worry. A lot.

And there's something about seeing one's hard-won prose queried that makes at least some of us go into a sudden tizzwah of, "Oh dear oh dear . . . is this really wrong? Hooooooney! Come tell me what you think of this comma!"

Thanks

[(Anonymous)]

Always good to be reminded, at whatever stage in our writing we find ourselves.

xxxJane Yolen

[ianracey.livejournal.com]

I went through copyedits with my first novel about three months ago. Most of the changes were things that I thought made the book that little bit better, but the main memory I'll be taking from the experience is that it taught me exactly the sorts of changes I'll be rejecting for any subsequent books--changes I let through this time precisely because I was worried about coming across as the author who made too much of a fuss. Thanks for this.

[ellen-kushner.livejournal.com]

So glad! And congratulations.

[isabelswift.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. Broadly agree with the advice, but the advisor broke my cardinal rule of advice giving: "I also routinely overrule them, and so should you." Advice should open the door to a new possibility and ideally offer insights or fresh perspective. Not declare everyone should do what they do.

I might also add to Ms Chute's comment (it's your name) that it is also the publisher's name that the work goes out under (whose perspective and sense of quality control the editor is charged with representing).

As others have noted, this should be a dialogue, where issues and concerns are discussed and resolved. But if there are time pressures, personality issues, strongly divergent visions for the work, things can go south in a hurry!

And there are lapses in all directions--surely I am not alone in noting that the early focussed, tightly written stories of a now famous storyteller have given way to rambling, self-indulgent prose, I assume because s/he has the commercial success & ego to have eliminated any external input. And the audience may stick with them as their other positive attributes outweigh the negatives.

But as an editor let me warmly endorse the point that editing, copyediting, etc. should be a dialogue with all parties looking to create the best reading experience, not a one-way set of demands. The author is being sent the material so a viable path can be found between their vision and intention and comprehension, accessibility, impact.

That path is not always an easy one to find! Some writer's work is deliberately obscure, opaque, poetic and so it can be difficult. An editor may be more conservative with a first time author because everyone's uncertain of finding the desired audience. Once an appreciative audience has been established, everyone can relax a bit. (imagine if Haruki Murakami's had started writing in America!) Because the editor is charged and challenged to ensure the book is salable. If the story doesn't sell, that author's career may in jeopardy. Commercial viability is what s/he is trying to bring to the picnic, but that doesn't mean the editor is always right, or that the suggested "correction" is the best solution.

[ellen-kushner.livejournal.com]

Fine points, Is! Thanks for making them here.

I must say again that relations with one's editor are a whole different ball o' wax: you can look them in the eye, and talk back & forth. The copyedited ms. comes from an anonymous source, presumably an Authority on grammar, punctuation, etc. - having to respond to it in the privacy of one's home can turn a usually confident author into either a pissed-off 2-yr-old or a quivering mass of insecurities:

- LEAVE. MY. WORK. ALONE!! IT'S MINE!!
and/or (sometimes alternating with):
- Oh, dear. Do you think they're right about that comma? I liked that comma - but . . . now . . . I don't know. . . . Oh, dear . . . [REPEAT FOR 421 PAGES. Lie on floor. Have a drink.]

So Editor Jonathan's advice is, I think, well-taken - or at least, a balancing antidote to the Copyeditor Problem.

[isabelswift.livejournal.com]

Balance is the key.

And I'm not a grammarian, so tend to focus on what gives a reasonably clear signal to most readers (not always 100% correct). And grammar (Eats, shoots, leaves notwithstanding) isn't always black & white....

It's often not easy to work with other people, but finding that balance is a continuous task throughout one's life on all levels. Just reading Deborah Tannen, whose thesis is that all communication carries two simultaneous & totally opposite compelling desires: one of connecting to another person, one of maintaining one's autonomy & independence. Sound familiar?

copyediting

[(Anonymous)]

Paul Witcover here, Ellen. As someone who copyedits, edits, and writes, I've been on all sides of the triangle. A good copyeditor will not change but rather query what seems out of place or mistaken, and leave it to the author to make the final decision. That said, many publishers have a house style and require copyeditors to conform manuscripts to that style -- Harlequin, for example. Also, copyediting ideally is about more than simply grammar and spelling. It also involves fact-checking, consistency of style and story details, story logic and plot points, and so on: things that can fall through the cracks in big-picture substantive editing.

Re: copyediting

[ellen-kushner.livejournal.com]

Thank you, Paul! Really useful insights to have.

I know that I have been saved more than once by the rectitude of copyeditors, particularly when it comes to fact-checking & consistency! In a short story, that can be less of an issue, and the commas can loom larger.

I never intended this post to be a slamming of copyeditors - just an insight for ever-neurotic authors into how not to fall to pieces when questioned.