PUGGY&#39;S HILL

Oh, how cool! I'm going to point a bunch of people at this, some for future years, some because it's just the sort of thing they should be donating to.

This is the kind of workshop we get asked about at Clarion West (http://clarionwest.org) every once in a while, too.

From:

pnh.livejournal.com

Does Clarion actually have a minimum age? I'm pretty sure it didn't used to, and that several people have attended when in their teens.

I really, really hate the way the SF subculture is increasingly institutionalizing the segregation of young people away from the rest of us. One of the SF world's greatest strengths used to be that we didn't do this.

From:

Interesting. I don't think Clarion has a minimum age, but there are a lot of people under 18 who don't have the 6 weeks or the money for Clarion - or would not enjoy possibly being the only under-21's in a class of intense, competitive 25-75 yr olds. 10 days sounds perfect for them.

From:

pnh.livejournal.com

Of course, the condition of not having six weeks or several thousand dollars to spare isn't limited to young people. VP has run for ten years by catering to people who can't spare six weeks but can spare one.

I'm not questioning the value of this workshop, and I have no argument with young people who want to self-segregate. But your headline seemed to pretty clearly say that there's such a thing as "too young for Clarion". Since you're an instructor there this year, I thought I'd ask if this was the case.

From:

Viable Paradise is another great option!

I know I have a lot of young readers here, and that many of them fear they are too young for Clarion. But as far as I know, there's no age limit.

From:

Like lots of things, it depends on the person. I don't know about age ranges at Clarion, though I suspect they're similar to what we see at Clarion West. Clarion West has had one 17-year-old student, who has gone on to have a solid career. CW has had many 18- and 19-year-old students, and like all the other age groups, they've had varying results. The outcome doesn't seem to have as much to do with the age of the student as with whether they're ready in terms of their writing and the amount of time, energy, and attention they devote to it.

(deleted comment)

From:

Great to have you here! Alpha sounds terrific - I'm really enjoying the thoughtful responses from your alumnae; hope it all engenders lots of applicants and lots of support.

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_starlady_/

It's not that the students couldn't handle the longer workshops, most of the time it's the parents who won't let them apply to "adult" workshops. This isn't a case where students are self-segregating--what you aren't seeing is that Alpha is incredibly fun as well as being effective. Example. Mike Velichansky went to Alpha, then Odyssey (the Gene Wolfe year), then back to Alpha the next year. Mike just joined SFWA and he'll be at the Nebulas--you can speak with him directly. Alpha is not like any other genre workshop. The bonding is intense. The laughter is intense. It isn't that the students aren't serious about writing--they are. They come from all over, as far away as New Zealand. They are allowed to make a lot of the decisions about how the workshop is run, so it's tuned to their needs (and they *need* it to be relaxed and fun). Teens make up 1/2 of my committee.

I'm thrilled to see you guys talking about the Alpha workshop--thanks so much for posting about it, Ellen.

Viable Paradise sounds just lovely. What a location!

Peace,

Diane

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Diane Turnshek
SFWA ERD
2007 Nebula Award Weekend Chair
http://sff.net/people/diane/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From:

rajenath.livejournal.com

All that I could find on the main Clarion website is that "Clarion students range in age from late teens to those in mid-career." Clarion South specifies age 18 and older and Clarion West says that they've had participants as young as 20. From one of the comments in this thread, it looks like they've actually had students as young as 17.

I don't remember whether I heard of Clarion or Alpha first (or, for that matter, where I heard of Alpha). I do know that, had I known of Clarion, I would have been too intimidated by it to apply when I was 17. I applied to Alpha because I knew that I could learn a lot from it without committing to a full six weeks of intense instruction (and six weeks away from home). For students in their teens who have not spent much time away from home, ten days is a much easier length of time to deal with. (It's also an easier length of time for parents, especially for parents of 14 or 15-year-olds.)

With the lower age range (starting at 14 rather than the late teens), shorter length, and somewhat less intimidating presentation, Alpha makes an excellent introduction to the SF subculture. I went to Alpha when I was 17 years old. I never noticed a lack of adults, or a lack in interaction with them. I probably spent at least half of my socialization time with adults, both lecturers and admin. If even that was not enough, students are introduced to a large number of other adults at Confluence. We were encouraged to talk to them and included in conversations. I was terribly shy when I went to Alpha, but I feel that I got to know the adults as well as I knew the other students. I never felt like segregation was going on, either voluntarily on the part of the students or imposed on them by the adults. Yes, the students would stay up late talking with each other, but that was only after we had been up almost as late talking with the adults.

In short, Clarion presents itself as older, longer, and more intense. Alpha is short and relaxed enough to be acceptable to parents and to students who haven't spent much time from home and/or are unsure about spending six weeks just focusing on writing. The age range allows for comfort in one's own peer group, while still encouraging plenty of interaction with adults. I'm not familiar with a segregation of young people from adults in the general SF culture, but I am sure that I didn't feel it at Alpha.

From:

shadesong.livejournal.com

Oooh! Will have to stash this link and hope they keep running it... my little aspiring writer turns 12 tomorrow. Wish there was a program that skewed slightly younger!

From:

Dave Eggers runs a great free after-school program for school-age writers in various locations around the US and Canada. More info here (http://www.826national.org/). I think they're trying to open in more cities all the time.

From:

shadesong.livejournal.com

Thanks! :) Looks like they're not here (Boston) yet, but I'll keep checking back...

From:

826 Boston (http://www.826national.org/content/46/826-boston) is opening RealSoonNow in Jamaica Plain.

From:

shadesong.livejournal.com

*blink* *blink* How did I not see that?

I must volunteer!

From:

keilexandra

Too bad nothing ever happens in Delaware.

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_starlady_/

> Oooh! Will have to stash this link and hope they keep running it.

Thanks--yes, we'll keep running it. Alpha is in its sixth year. We've had a huge list of fabulous writers and editors come and help out. Some of them are: Timothy Zahn, Theodora Goss, Harry Turtledove, William Tenn, Lawrence C. Connolly, Timons Esaias, Bruce Holland Rogers, James Frenkel, Tobias Buckell, Mike Arnzen, Leslie What, David Barr Kirtley, Wen Spencer, Eric Davin, Michael Kandel and Tamora Pierce.

I wish I knew of programs for younger aspiring writers--I get asked this all the time. 826 Boston sounds wonderful! (Thanks, Kate!)

Diane

From:

luckfire.livejournal.com

There is Absynthe Muse (http://www.absynthemuse.com). It's an online forum with a really nice mentoring program and an active community. There are no age restrictions, and a spectacular variety of writers. Elisabeth, who runs AM, is also on the Alpha commitee. She's been organizing charity book drives and all sorts of cool things, too.

From:

belledewinter.livejournal.com

I'd love to go. If only it weren't so far away from where I am.

From:

luckfire.livejournal.com

Well, there's no harm in applying. There are some partial scholarships available that can help cover travel expenses. The workshop itself is phenomenal (I did two years and now I'm on the volunteer staff) and the people are amazing. Because applicants are judged solely on the quality of their submission stories, you learn almost as much from your fellow students as you do from the instructors. Honestly, I'd give it a shot and see what happens.

From:

hobbit-em.livejournal.com

I'd never heard of Odyssey or Clarion before Alpha. The only reason I heard about Alpha was because I was poking around Tamora Pierce's website one day and followed the link. It was probably, aside from college (which is ongoing), the best thing to ever happen to me. (And actually, I first learned of my college's existence thanks to

luckfire, and though she doesn't go here there are two other alphans who do...)

From:

Thanks for the wonderful tribute to Alpha - great to know it's such a good experience, and took you places you wanted & needed to go without knowing it....

From:

*sings brokenheartedly* If I had a million dollars (If I had a million dollars)...I'd go to this workshop (but not a real workshop, that's cruel...)

Time to go read bad Great Depression fiction and depress myself in every aspect of the word, now. *drags sorry carcass off stage right*

From:

So? Have you applied to Alpha yet?? (Just do what I tell you and nobody will get hurt....)

From:

Mrrrr, I have lack of funds. I haven't worked since school started, have $25 in the bank, and even if I was puppy-dog-eyed and dejected enough to merit the scholarshipthingamajig, I couldn't afford half the price.

Also, I have no really good piece of writing (the last short story I wrote was in 9'th grade, and don't particularly see it becoming a novel). I've been brainstorming something about concubines, but it's just a thought and some notebook scribbles. I'd never have something to submit in time.

Cinderella, much? (D!!

From:

I wouldn't let the money thing stop you - that's what scholarships are for, and if you really need it, they can come through.

Not having a story to submit is a good reason, though. It's too bad! I wonder if pressure would help? I do some of my best writing when I have only a few days before a deadline. Do you think you might be able to throw something together by then?

From:

I'll try my best. ^^; Chances are I'll send off something completely crap at the last moment with a heartfelt plea for an application.

I'm just emerging from Portfolio Hell in English, too, and just got assigned another paper in Psych. (I'm up to six at once! Three-state killing spree, here I come!) So maybe something inspirationful will get written while I'm swimming in papers, anyway. XD

The little Lord Ferris earring (just born yesterday!) is sitting there glaring at me. I don't think he believes in me. *stuffs him in back of underwear drawer*

From:

You are so wonderful! I want to see you go far. Write whatever makes you happiest (for Alpha, anyway! - good luck with your other papers - as some 18c guy said, "Nothing concentrates the mind so well as the knowledge that one is to be hanged in the morning." This is probably what's responsible for so many students pulling all-nighters.) And let me know if there's a way for me to help (other than being your official cheering section.)

Little Lord Ferris :: ha!! You should send photos of earrings to those Bead LJ folks - they don't specify necklaces, after all...

From:

Ohhh, I'm so frustrated! I've begun writing and really like it thus far, but my beta readers have pointed out that I've got too much going on for a *short* story (and also that apparently my syntax and word choices suck...I don't even remember what syntax means!)and they're right. I'm so pickled: I've got two pairs of characters doing things at the same time and was going to tie them in together, but it'll be too complex... And I know I'm going to have to cut one pair or the other, but I like them all the same!

I don't suppose it has to be perfect, does it...?

*sniff* Help?

From:

That's a tough one. Your projected story sounds complex and interesting and well worth doing. The question is whether you can make it work in time for the application deadline, if it's that complex. Maybe best if you think of it as a sketch or an exercise: what are the ways that you can make it as tight and trim as possible? I know you know how to think that way artistically, because that's essentially what a drawing or a cartoon panel is (are? now you've got me on syntax...). Use that part of your brain to make it lean and mean. You can always write the more complicated version with all the good characters later - in fact, maybe you can work on it at the workshop, if you get in! All you need for now is something to show what you can do. I know you've got the skills to write 2000-6000 interesting words & characters.

Of course it doesn't have to be perfect!! It just has to work. (This is a lesson I'm spending a lifetime learning, so don't beat yourself up over it.)

It's nice to have beta readers because they're like an audience or a cheering section while you work, but DON'T worry about perfection of syntax & word choices while you're still writing your first draft!!!!!!!!!!! That's the stuff you clean up in the revisions, once you've got the entire idea laid out on paper. Nobody gets it right the first time. Taht's not how it works.

As a journalist friend of ours said - and we've all got it stuck up on our desktops now:

BASH IT OUT NOW
TART IT UP LATER

Nose to the grindstone - and keep me posted!

Oh, and another use for your betas: talk the whole thing through with them. Sometimes it's easier to figure out plot points by talking them out; that way you're not creating it raw on the paper. And it's fun.

From:

From their "Further Info" page http://alpha.spellcaster.org/html/further_info.html

"We're looking for enthusiastic, talented young writers, with a strong interest in science fiction, fantasy and/or horror, and a passion for writing. Your submitted work does not have to be perfect, and nor would we ask it so. What we look for in the stories is promise, not experience. Send us what you feel is your best work. We encourage every young writer who is interested to send in a piece of work."

See? It doesn't have to be perfect!

From:

Make sure it has a beginning, middle, and end.

In the beginning, someone wants something: could be some object, some knowledge, some person, a change of address, whatever.

The middle is how they do or do not get it.

The end is when it ends.

OR

A problem is posed in the beginning.

By the end, the problem is solved.
(This is our famous 2-word Storywriting workshop:
PROBLEM: SOLUTION
Try it at home!)

As Rabbi Hillel said: All the rest is commentary. Now, go and learn.

From:

And by "application" I of course meant "scholarship". *tosses dictionary out the window*

From:

http://users.livejournal.com/_starlady_/

And we just our first student application that names your lj in the block that says, "Where did you hear about the Alpha Workshop?" Thanks so much, Ellen.

Diane

From:

I am so glad to hear it!!

Good luck, Friend Applicant, whoever you are!

From:

stephenhsegal.livejournal.com

I learned about Alpha while I was editing Pittsburgh Magazine. I sent my sf-loving high-school journalism intern out for a day to do a story on the workshop, and she came back INTENSELY envious of the kids who were enrolled for the duration. From all I've heard, it's a really terrific program. And certainly Diane and her faculty are awesome people in addition to being great writers.

From: