ellenkushner: (Bessie McNicol)
[personal profile] ellenkushner
"[O]ne of [fashion designer] McQueen's real gifts was a comprehension of an experience recognizable to most women, the feeling of being the object of someone's unforgiving gaze." -- NYTimes Style section, 2/14/10

Well, that explains a lot about the women I find confusing, the ones who really seem to think that if they go to the grocery w/o full makeup or in the wrong pair of shoes, the Furies will descend. The fierceness with which they feel this only makes sense in the presence of an imaginary Gazer installed early in life.

'"The goyim . . . do not feed their guests; it is not their custom," the girls' mother explains, bringing a cake as a gift while paying a social call. "We must respect the customs of others cultures, but that does not mean we have to starve."'
-- Cathleen Schine, The Three Weissmanns of Westport (a modern riff on Sense & Sensiblity!), as reviewed by Dominique Browning in the NYTimes Book Review

Ha! When I read that aloud to Delia, adding, "Now, who do you think wrote that?" she said, without missing a beat, "You?"

Date: 2010-02-21 08:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dramaturgca.livejournal.com
I'm doing a lot of reading about female characters, particularly in action and sci-fi, and there's a universal agreement between the authors about the male gaze and the ways in which film encourages that voyeuristic stare.

Date: 2010-02-21 08:35 pm (UTC)
ext_3751: (Default)
From: [identity profile] phoebesmum.livejournal.com
I always feed my guests, and so does everyone else I know. I'm just saying.

Date: 2010-02-21 08:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tamago.livejournal.com
In the words of Cab Calloway: "Everybody eats when they come to my house."

Date: 2010-02-21 08:39 pm (UTC)

Date: 2010-02-21 08:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/
Yeah, that one little article from film/gender theory going back to Freud keeps cropping up still. And no wonder - I'm mainly commenting because this (http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/44283231.html?mode=reply&style=mine) was right under your post in one of those ironic juxtapositions.

Date: 2010-02-22 05:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellen-kushner.livejournal.com
Ha! Ironic indeed. Poor pet.

Date: 2010-02-21 08:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mizkit.livejournal.com
How bizarre. I think I've only felt that way--as if I'm the object of an unforgiving gaze, or many unforgiving gazes--a few times in my life. Those times have primarily been when I have, for example, been unable to make up my mind about what I was going to do and kept pacing back and forth across a ten foot space. At which point I feel sort of like an idiot and therefore assume everyone around me has noticed I'm a pacing idiot and is staring at me because of it (though the one time I've ever seen that behavior reflected in film, all I felt was sympathy for the character because I knew EXACTLY what that felt like, and I suspect if I ever noticed it in real life I would feel similarly).

It does, though, yeah, explain the women who put on full makeup and do their hair before going to the gym at 5:30am, which I have never ever understood...

Date: 2010-02-22 12:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cpolk.livejournal.com
oh man you are lucky.

i basically feel as if there are eyes on me from the second i walk out the door until I lock myself safely inside...

though i don't get into full parade dress. I mostly style myself as relentlessly uncaring of that gaze, sometimes i even make an effort to give it the finger. but when i wear dark enough glasses that i can drop the years-practiced art of not making eye contact with anyone so i can't notice them staring--

It's not a delusion. it's not 100%, but when they can't tell i'm looking, i'm being gawked at. i've watched motorists swivel their heads to KEEP looking as they drive through the intersection.

Alas. if only it were because I'm achingly beautiful.

Date: 2010-02-21 08:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] movingfinger.livejournal.com
"The goyim . . . do not feed their guests; it is not their custom," the girls' mother explains, bringing a cake as a gift while paying a social call. "We must respect the customs of others cultures, but that does not mean we have to starve."'

She can't have been to Nova Scotia!

Date: 2010-02-22 04:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellen-kushner.livejournal.com
Well, the novel takes place in Westport, Connecticut. 'Nuff said?

Date: 2010-02-21 09:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elissaann.livejournal.com
I knew a woman who wore makeup on a camping trip! She said, "my eyes disappear if I don't wear mascara."

Date: 2010-02-22 03:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] phoenix64.livejournal.com
I know a woman who brought a curling iron on a fishing boat.

I used to be that woman who couldn't go out the door "without her face on". It's very nice to get past that.

Date: 2010-02-22 04:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellen-kushner.livejournal.com
Can you tell how you did get past that? or how/why you started doing it in the first place?

Date: 2010-02-23 05:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] phoenix64.livejournal.com
Oh my, I wish I could offer some useful insights but I think we're out of luck. Sometimes I'm downright impressive when it comes to self-observation but sometimes I sleep through that class.

"Getting past it" probably happened after a period of depression when I didn't see the point in bothering and then I realized I was fine without it. Being around some other women who didn't wear a lot if any makeup may have helped.

As to how it started in the first place, again it probably had something to do with the other women around me. I didn't really wear makeup even at the beginning of high school; it wasn't that I wasn't interested I just didn't know how and I didn't feel comfortable asking any of the females in my life. I got made over more than a couple of times, always with a small gaggle of girls cooing over me and telling me how pretty I looked, and eventually I was able to keep it up myself. Makeup feels like armor to me sometimes. On one hand I think that I really am capable of a little more self-confidence when I'm wearing it. On the other hand I wonder how much of it has to do with it being that when I am wearing makeup it's one less thing about me that's "not normal".

(Yes, even when I have little to say I can still find an overabundance of words to say it with.)

Date: 2010-02-23 08:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellen-kushner.livejournal.com
Makes perfect sense to me! Thank you for the insights and data. ("sometimes I sleep through that class" - grin!)

And, yes, makeup is armor. I don't actually think it's evil; I certainly wear it myself when I feel the situation warrants it. It's the women who feel they're unworthy without it that I worry about. But if you live in a culture where most people believe that, what are you to do?

Date: 2010-02-21 09:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unovis-lj.livejournal.com
Italian women ALWAYS show up with food. So do many of the men.
Bah, reread that, and it's even more defamatory. What barbarian wouldn't feed a guest?
Edited Date: 2010-02-21 09:21 pm (UTC)

Date: 2010-02-21 09:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellen-kushner.livejournal.com
It's our Mediterranean heritage!

The ones who think we only want to get shikkered.

Date: 2010-02-22 12:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xanath.livejournal.com
Gotta be the Italian heritage. Even Mom, who was (as she put it) Italian only by injection, fed guests. :D I was shocked when I got to college and visited friends with a plate of spaghetti, only to find nobody had brought any food. "Um, we ate already . . ." "So where do I put the spaghetti?!"

Date: 2010-02-22 12:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] huladavid.livejournal.com
Uh... Who DID say it? (I think us cold blood "Lutherans" -everybody is "Lutheran" of some sort in Minnesota- only bring food to church pot-lucks.)

Date: 2010-02-23 08:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellen-kushner.livejournal.com
Cathleen Schine, The Three Weissmanns of Westport (a modern riff on Sense & Sensiblity!), as reviewed by Dominique Browning in the NYTimes Book Review

Date: 2010-02-22 12:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/
I have never been comfortable in my skin, it was drummed into me so early that I am not my own property, but that of my culture -- as a girl and then a woman, I exist to be measured, judged and commented on. Yet I don't worry about the make-up or shoes, oddly. Throughout my life, I have been handled and commented on by strangers of both sexes and made to feel out-of-line if I commented back. It drives me nuts to see other women treated this way, yet I can't seem to push back when I'm the subject. Ho hum.
My people -- the Welsh -- are also compulsive guest feeders.

Date: 2010-02-22 03:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellen-kushner.livejournal.com
Aha! Yes, that confirms my suspicion that it is drummed into one at an early age, probably by family. The person at the back of my mind with all this is a relative by marriage, always exquisitely turned out, who clearly had it drummed into her by her rather terrifying -and equally terrified - mother. I've met the mother. I'd be scared, too.

There's a terrific story we should all (re)read now: "A Visit from the Footbinder" by Emily Prager.

Yes, the Welsh are excellent bakers! Frankly, the only culture I've ever encountered that didn't feed its guests are the Anglo/WASPS, who drink instead (instead of as well). There are a lot of them in Connecticut, where Westport is.

Date: 2010-02-22 02:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shrewreader.livejournal.com
I think I now have to read that book.

Because, seriously. Cake.

Date: 2010-02-23 08:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellen-kushner.livejournal.com
I know, I know!

I thought you were going to say, "Because, seriously. Jane Austen in Westport."

But "Cake" is good, too!

Date: 2010-02-22 02:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shrewreader.livejournal.com
Also, having initially read too fast, I initially assumed the McQueen referred to was Steve, who totally would have understood about being the object of someone's unforgiving gaze.

I mean, McQueen -- what's not to like to look at? *sighs and fans self wistfully, makes note to pull out Magnificent 7 or Great Escape for the after-rugby*

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